The Thread

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1. INTRODUCTION

For six years, I was a part of “the Lord’s Recovery” or “the Local Church” movement, a group of Christians who seem to truly love Jesus. But they teach heretical doctrines and are a cult movement. Here’s why I finally decided to leave (a thread):


2. PREFACE

Firstly, the Recovery is known for suing other Christians who write against them, at the least strong-arming or pressuring them to take their content down. I’m not looking to get into a law-battle with the Recovery, any of its specific churches, or any of its organizations. My only aim is to present my experience and give my opinion of that experience, detailing specific problems, and defending my opinions with biblical evidence.


3. A WARNING TO MEMBERS (1)

A tactic of the Recovery is to tarnish the reputation of the negative writer, calling his or her work “poison” or his or her character “selfishly ambitious” or “worldly”. Before members consider my experience to be poisonous and decide to only listen to the elders, consider Acts 17:11 and how the Berean Jews were considered more fair-minded and noble for not blindly believing Paul’s word, but comparing Paul’s word to God’s. And consider Acts 15:2, when Paul and Barnabas handled a major disagreement by means of a major argument and debate.

I’m debating here, but I’m fallible. There’s nothing wrong with reading my refutation and checking it against the Scriptures.


4. A WARNING TO MEMBERS (2)

This thread is straight forward. I am not trying to be mean or nice; I’m trying to tell it like it was for me, no defamation or ill-will. I warn you not to take things personally but to carefully consider the Recovery versus the Bible.


5. THE RECOVERY IS ELITIST (1)

While claiming to be for the oneness of the church, within its own meetings, it frequently and openly belittles all other Christians as inferior, less than Recovery Christians.


6. THE RECOVERY IS ELITIST (2)

The Recovery teaches that all of Christianity outside of itself is religious Babylon.


7. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (1)

Its elitism becomes each member’s elitism. Members come to believe that all other Christians are lost and are missing out on being a real Christian overcomer.


8. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (2)

Members with outsider, genuinely Christian families become hopeful for their families to join the Recovery. They are considered to be amongst the lost and are still missing out on the best form of Christianity.


9. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (3)

It conditions its members into legalism. For example, a special elder called a “blended brother”, a speaker from the pulpit at a major national conference for the Recovery, says not to wear worldly clothing. That speaker is wearing a tie in a room that requires all men to wear a tie, obviously implying ties are somehow not worldly.


10. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (4)

It teaches members that leaving the Recovery is impossible because the Spirit and truth are restraining them. However, it’s really the authoritative and interpreted/speculative doctrines that manipulate members into staying.


11. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (5)

The movement follows one man, its teacher and prophet Witness Lee, who authoritatively proclaims that he has already unlocked the entirety of the Bible. He teaches members not to read any other Christian books and only to read the Recovery translation of the Bible.


12. THE RECOVERY IS IDOLATROUS (1)

It unscripturally teaches there’s a “unique minister in every age” (i.e., every generation), thus only promoting Witness Lee’s writings.


13. THE RECOVERY IS IDOLATROUS (2)

On numerous documented occasions, its leaders boast of their dedication to Witness Lee’s teachings, publicly and pettily ridiculing others who speak against him.


14. THE RECOVERY INDOCTRINATES (1)

It has its own school (“the Training”) that, on a rigorous schedule, teaches its students to learn Witness Lee’s view of the Bible, conditioning them to be a good person according to Lee’s convictions.


15. THE RECOVERY INDOCTRINATES (2)

Members who are younger than college-aged are mostly born into families who are a part of the movement. Middle school to high school students are sent to the “Summer School of Truth” over the summer. They grow up with the Bible, in the context of Witness Lee writings, being drilled into them.


16. THE RECOVERY INDOCTRINATES (3)

College-aged members have an opportunity to go to a Training, which has all of the legalistic rules of the post-college Training and teaches Witness Lee material.


17. THE RECOVERY INDOCTRINATES (4)

It hosts conferences throughout the holidays and throughout the year. At those conferences, speakers go over Witness Lee content and frequently dismiss the idea of getting into the Scriptures because there isn’t enough time.


18. THE RECOVERY ISOLATES (1)

It cuts itself off from all other Christians within the local community, marking other meetings as “missing the mark” of the “proper ground” of being a church (which is specifically based on how a church is named, rather than Spirit-based).


19. THE RECOVERY ISOLATES (2)

Members end up spending most of their free time in the daily meetings. No one is forced to attend; members are simply manipulated into believing that all of their free time should be devoted to the Recovery. The majority of members have no real contact with outsiders beyond their jobs or when attempting to make Recovery converts out of college students.


20. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (1)

It mocks seminaries (in the Training) yet has the Training.


21. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (2)

It considers outside church groups’ population increases to be meaningless and even worldly, but when its own population increases, the Recovery claims it is because of God.


22. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (3)

It teaches members to drop their favorite practices for the sake of oneness, but it only promotes Witness Lee’s interpretation of proper practices.


23. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (4)

It claims to care about oneness of the Spirit, but its oneness makes it excluded from all other Christianity.


24. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (5)

It says non-Recovery churches are divided because their oneness isn’t based on Christ alone, yet the Recovery churches are only unified in their belief in Witness Lee, who is not Christ.


25. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (1)

It has practices that are melodically, robotically repetitive in speech, all requiring an odd inflection of the voice. These are, at the very least, culturally disconnected.


26. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (2)

It only permits music to the Lord that is in its hymnal, which appeals to one style of music with songs that were approved or written by Witness Lee.


27. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (3)

Since Witness Lee’s death, new songs are simply Witness Lee’s own words in musically unrhythmic form.


28. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (4)

While claiming to not be legalistic, it addresses the wrongfulness of celebrating most holidays, which is largely Witness Lee’s convictions.


29. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (5)

It improperly/oddly uses English, speaking with insider jargon that was coined by Witness Lee: “new ones”, “economy”, “god-men” (referencing Christians who are becoming God), “constitution”, “issue”, etc.


30. THE RECOVERY’s MINISTRY IS CONDITIONAL (1)

If a member attempts to teach and shepherd an outsider, but the outsider doesn’t appreciate Witness Lee’s teachings (even while still loving the Bible), the member will give up on ministering to the outsider because he or she was taught to do so, considering the outsider a non-seeker and thus a waste of time.


31. THE RECOVERY IS CHRISTIAN-LITIGIOUS (1)

Although the Bible teaches Christians not to sue each other, the Recovery has repetitively sued or strong-armed Christians who write against it.


32. THE RECOVERY IS FULL OF LEGALISM (1)

It says, “Christians live by grace.” But the Training teaches students to “learn grace” through contractual religious laws, which are solely according to Witness Lee’s personal convictions on character, practices, and biblical doctrine.


33. THE RECOVERY HAS A THIRD TESTAMENT OF THE BIBLE (1)

It claims to only care about the Bible, but Witness Lee’s writings (i.e., the interpreted Bible) are read, spoken, and re-taught with biblical authority; these writings are always justifiable and are considered infallible by members.


34. THE RECOVERY IS DECEPTIVE (1)

In its defense of its biblically questionable teachings or practices, the Recovery teaches something contextually irrelevant yet biblically sound, seemingly giving the Recovery biblical orthodoxy, but then avoids a truly biblical defense of the topic at hand (i.e., deflection).


35. THE RECOVERY IS DECEPTIVE (2)

It teaches that local churches are only under the authority of Christ. In reality, all of its content and direction comes from its headquartered organization, which gets its content and direction from the writings and past direction of Witness Lee.


36. THE RECOVERY IS DECEPTIVE (3)

It teaches and boasts that the Recovery is the same everywhere because of Christ. It is obviously the same everywhere because members uplift/deify Witness Lee and teach his material.


37. THE RECOVERY IS SELF-SERVING (1)

Members who love their notably, culturally stranger Recovery-practices ignore guests’ noticeable uncomfortableness in many of their meetings, caring only to continue in what they consider to be “living” (i.e., practicing how LR has taught them to practice, what they’re used to).


38. THE RECOVERY IS SELF-SERVING (2)

Its goal in speech is to spread and express Christ. Its goal in reality is to spread Witness Lee’s writings, doctrines, practices, and convictions.


39. IN ITS CURRENT CONDITION, THE RECOVERY CANNOT GROW SPIRITUALLY (1)

It believes Witness Lee to be mainly infallible. To loyal members, everything about the Recovery, no matter how clearly biblically wrong, is always defensible. If Witness Lee got something wrong, it was only because a truth was not “recovered” yet.


40. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (1)

It goes beyond the Bible, teaching that Christians are becoming God in life and nature but not in the godhead, even though none of Jesus’ own disciples even came to that conclusion.


41. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (2)

In its meetings, members have shouted “We are God!” without any public reproof; this statement has even been given “Amens!” without any rebuttal.


42. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (3)

The Bible says we don’t yet know what we will be when Jesus comes back, that we will be like God. Witness Lee says we will be the same as him, God and man, just not in the godhead.


43. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (4)

It goes beyond the Bible, teaching that there is a singular, unique minister in every age (generation), claiming Witness Lee is the last unique minister before Jesus comes back.


44. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (5)

It goes beyond the Bible, loosely teaching interesting yet speculative theory as divine fact (e.g., it teaches that the “7 Spirits” in Revelation should absolutely be interpreted as the seven-fold intensification of the Spirit).


45. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (6)

It declares “one city equals one church” an essential item of the Christian faith when the Bible doesn’t discuss names; it merely gives us examples of meeting locations (e.g., cities, a port in a city, and houses). I.e., the Bible doesn’t say, “Do you not know there is one church in one city?”


46. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (7)

The legality of the “one church in one city” is so strict, the Recovery teaches its members they should not even take the bread and the wine with outsiders.


47. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (8)

It only cares if Witness Lee says it. Although he made loose biblical connections throughout his teachings, members consider Lee’s teachings with biblical authority. That authority makes Lee’s writings sacred to members, which obviously goes beyond the Bible.


48. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (9)

It teaches that we should all “speak the same thing”. Although this is a biblical phrase, the Recovery uses it to reference speaking only Witness Lee’s teachings, even doing so in the same, odd, robotic tone.


49. IN SUMMARY (1)

The Recovery is a mess of things that have nothing to do with Christ. And I know that I didn’t discuss all of its problems here. It claims to be biblical, but in reality, it is a cult, having misplaced, idolatrous loyalty for Witness Lee, believing and teaching his many heretical doctrines.


50. IN SUMMARY (2)

I have no doubt the Recovery is full of real believers, but they have a divisive, relentless, unapologetic dedication to Witness Lee and his teachings; the authority his teachings have should be reserved for Jesus Christ and His speaking alone.


51. IN HINDSIGHT (1)

I’m very glad the Lord is on the throne. I’ve learned a lot about my Lord Jesus through my time in the Recovery; God was sovereign and faithful in our relationship together I grew as a Christian.

My growth does not automatically indicate the Recovery is justified in heresy. What Satan meant for evil, I believe God meant for good.


52. IN HINDSIGHT (2)

I actually learned a lot from Witness Lee and his followers, but I mainly learned how to discern biblical truth from speculative and weak interpretations. I learned the truth, but I also learned the lie.


53. MY ADVICE (1)

If you’re in it, pray about leaving. It can be hard at first, but it’s okay with God to meet with other Christians somewhere else. God isn’t dead religion. He’s living and active. And He’s not building His church with the dead, heretical, and divisive Recovery religion. He’s building it with Christ. Oneness is for all believers, not just Recovery members.


54. FINAL WARNINGS (1)

The Recovery will be slick, trained, and cunning in how it addresses any what I argue to be heresies. If you bring problems up with its leaders, expect nothing but redirected defenses that don’t actually address these definite experiences and problems.

Don’t automatically trust LR member responses. Take a breath and ask yourself, “Did this member actually answer my question?” Consider Acts 17:11 and go read the Scriptures to see for yourself!


55. LAST THOUGHTS (1)

I love many of the people I’m leaving in the Recovery. I hope every one of them will find a way to leave and build up the church in a normal, non-exclusive way of oneness, through Christ Jesus our Lord!

Remember, Christ plus nothing equals everything!

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Jacob Howard (Site Owner)Pinoy in JakartaZach SyndraFormer church kidFormer local church kid Recent comment authors
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Cal
Guest

Great points. Well-thought-out and organized. You’ve given me some things to think about mentioning on my YouTube channel.

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Thanks, Cal. Sincerely have been appreciating your YouTube content. There are definitely more items to add to the Thread, specifically around control. Appreciate your feedback.

Former member in Fullerton
Guest
Former member in Fullerton

They claim that they are not a denomination and they are not religious, but I just left the Lord’s recovery after 5 years of attending their meetings I can definitely say they are very very religious.

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

I can relate entirely! I’m happy to hear you’ve left. It was hard for me to leave, but I’ve appreciated getting to know God again and getting to know others who have left 🙂

Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
Guest
Former member in Cypress and Anaheim

hi! i know i’m a bit late seeing all this. but i am a former member from Cypress and Anaheim. i also went to a couple meetings in Fullerton with another sister who transferred there when she started at CSUF. i’d love to connect since you are from the same area i was from! i don’t live there anymore, but i’d still love to connect!

FormerChurchKid
Guest
FormerChurchKid

Do you have more updates to write on every points you made?

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Hey there! I sure do. Definitely more to come. There will be at least a few more thread items and, as I find the time, there will be more explanations and arguments to go with each item.

Terry Risenhoover
Guest
Terry Risenhoover

Excellent analysis and thousands can confirm every point that you make. Having known Witness Lee in the early years I saw him lose his focus and eventually many felt he went insane when he proclaimed himself to be the oracle and claimed fallaciously to have recovered truths and practices that came from others. Perhaps the greater tragedy is the insidious manner in which he betrayed virtually all his coworkers and surrounded himself by foolish ambitious men that now control the organization and it is an organization. May the Lord have mercy on all the so called Blended Brothers and open… Read more »

Carol Brown
Guest
Carol Brown

I agree that the ministry got off track, exalting Witness Lee and practically making an idol of him. He did a great work, however, and you cannot discount the whole man and the whole ministry because of this. Believe it or not, this happens more than you know, that a minister began a good work and in the end, it does not look the same way it started out. Did you ever hear of the devil? He has a way of slipping in and causing disruption, blindness and sin in order to DESTROY a ministry. It is the role of… Read more »

J.S
Guest
J.S

The “Problem” is Living Stream Ministry/Coworkers dominating over the local churches with the “Problematic Witness Lee Ministry”. In regard to “solutions”, many times concerning saints have approached the leadership of the LR whether it was in the 70s turmoil or the 80s, and many more attempts to fellowship and come up with “solutions to the “problems”. Do you know what happened to those people? They were “PUBLICLY SHAMED”, sullied, excommunicated, and their names demonized for years to come. This is what happens when you try follow the “Godly/scriptural method” of trying fellowshipping with the leaders of this group. Solutions to… Read more »

Denise Crawford
Guest
Denise Crawford

Thank you Jacob and Anna for your courage and honesty. May the Lord bless you and strengthen you both as He leads you in truth by His Holy Spirit. Praying for you.

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Thank you, Denise! We need and *highly appreciate* your prayers!

A one-time friend of a LC
Guest
A one-time friend of a LC

It’s breaking into their circular, self-reinforcing justifications (doctrines?) that is the trick. You are doing this very well and that is the best that any concerned person on the outside can do. As well as pray. You won’t know in this life-time, the far reaching results of your labour here. It is not to be underestimated, (in my opinion), even if not evidenced.

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Thank you so much for this encouragement. I truly pray for Recovees to consider they be wrong and open to the Lord Himself, repent, and leave the Recovery, just following Jesus! 🙂

NoMoreLR
Guest
NoMoreLR

Great information and Praise the Lord ! I have been save by God’s Mercy and Grace for over 25 years and married to LC / LR lady and her family is really deep into LR. I lived in Anaheim for a period of time and personly experienced “teaching” from leading elders about how LR attacks non-LC churches and me. My wife always stand with LR side and forcing me to attend LR ONLY. by the Grace and Mercy of Lord, I am FREE from LR. Their leaders asked me to be baptize again because “Your previous baptize is false”. The… Read more »

Claire
Guest
Claire

I beg to disagree. Christians in LR, most especially elders will not force you to be baptized again unless you want it. Or if your clear what baptism means. And I also disagree that we do not consider other Christian Lord’s lover outside the LR to be saved that is false. This is my first time hearing this statement. I hope the Lord’s spirit will guide and enlighten you.

NoMoreLR
Guest
NoMoreLR

Thank you, Jacob. I only with LR for about 2 years while I lived in Anaheim.Praise the Lord I moved out S.CA, My personal experiences with LR was shocking about how those leaders within LR can proclaim “There is no other ways to experience the True Church Life and Christ, expect in LR.” I had privilege to see LR current “Leaders” actions in major conferences and the how much they “hate” non-LR. I did not see any leaders within LR take BIBLE seriously but praise Witnesses Lee and his “thought” and his works My wife still very very deep into… Read more »

MoMoreLR
Guest
MoMoreLR

From Romans 16:17 – 18: I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Watch out LR who only cause divisions and serve their own appetites.

Chloe
Guest
Chloe

I was in the LR for 9 years. The only reason I left initially was because I moved to a rural area where there was no local church. But after a couple years of shedding all the manipulation and indoctrination I was able to see the lies and find my own path…and im so much happier now

A Follower of God
Guest
A Follower of God

Jacob, Thank you for creating this site and elaborating in detail the many issues that are to be found in the Lord’s Recovery. I was a member of the “Local Church Movement” for a little less than a year and found many of the points you shared here to be true. I want to emphasize the heretical view of LCM on “One City, One Church.” Out of this heretical doctrine flow so many issues. My family were called Satanic and members of the “Daughters of the Whore of Babylon” because they were meeting in denominational churches. An elder tried to… Read more »

Kristin
Guest
Kristin

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am also in the Lords recovery and found this by accident. I see a lot of points and where you’re coming from, but I haven’t experienced those things in the Locality that I am in. So it makes me wonder if you just had a bad experience in that particular Locality? Or maybe my Locality is just different? I don’t know. In our meetings, home meetings especially, we often go into scripture only and nothing from witness Lee. We are not even told anything if we read from a different version other than… Read more »

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Hi there, Kristin! Thanks for jumping in here and for being honest. I was in the Recovery in Conway, AR, for 6 years. It was mainly full of good people who were very kind! I have no doubt that there is nuance with each locality, but the core beliefs of the Recovery don’t bear much nuance at all. The Recovery has oneness, but it’s not based on Jesus Christ; it’s based on Witness Lee. The Recovery believes in the teachings and practices of Witness Lee (and Watchman Nee). That is what makes the Recovery what it is. I regret that… Read more »

Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
Guest
Former member in Cypress and Anaheim

i lived in the “heart” of the LR, in Anaheim, CA and surrounding localities. i was part of it from age 19-27. i also went on many many blending trips, conferences in other locations (and spent time in the homes in hospitality in those localities). i went to almost every semi-annual training (thereby meeting many many people from other localities over the years), spent ample time with trainees in the FTTA. i went to table meetings every Sunday, prayer meetings every Tuesday, ministry meetings every Wednesday, bible studies on campus every Thursday, college meetings in another locality every Thursday evening,… Read more »

Former local church kid
Guest
Former local church kid

This sounds much healthier than my experience. I was raised in it. The indoctrination the children received was highly damaging to many young people. My biggest concern is the use of authoritarian control tactics from the top down. It’s one thing to believe certain spiritual ideas. However, if the group you’re involved with uses certain practices- it’s unethical. Truth can withstand scrutiny. It will take bravery but you can check out Steve Hassans work and see how the “Recovery” compares with his BITE model of evaluating damaging groups. I’m not “anti-LC” as much as I’m anti-authoritarian control methods. Those methods… Read more »

Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
Guest
Former member in Cypress and Anaheim

i fully agree with everything said here. i was in the lord’s recovery for 8 years before i moved to a place without a “locality”. it was only then that i was able to begin to unpack and release all of the manipulation, brainwashing, and lies i was taught. i still held onto it all even a year or two after moving, i’ve now been away from it for 7 years but i’ve only been actively releasing myself from it for the past 5. it is a long hard road. the fear they drove into me that me leaving was… Read more »

Bro art
Guest
Bro art

I feel sorry for you leaving the LC..your still blinded and don’t know or understood what the recovery was all about…I enjoy the high truths as revealed by the ministry of the age..your jealousy will get you nowhere..the LR is spreading like crazy and you cannot stop it..there is no ministry like it on the earth.. Thanks to bro nee and bro Lee..you don’t stand a chance ti be an overcome in degraded Christianity were only one man speaks and the rest listen.. Like a brother told me one time..that not everybody belongs in the recovery..I got a lot more… Read more »

Max Springer
Guest
Max Springer

Bro art – plenty of people know the Lord’s Recovery like the back of their hand and know exactly what it was all about. Minoru Chen, one of the most prominent co-workers in the Lord’s Recovery, said straight out, recorded on video, a few years ago that the growth rate of the Lord’s Recovery has been zero over the past 30 years. Zero. Stagnant. The millions and millions of dollars spent to capture college students over the past 10-20 years has only resulted in a zero growth rate, as admitted by the leading brothers in the Lord’s Recovery. I and… Read more »

Former church kid
Guest
Former church kid

I was under the impression that it was not spreading. Can you explain where this is happening? If it is spreading on any college campus, how do you feel about the serving ones running the campus ministry- in direct opposition to college rules that campus clubs must be run by students? Do you feel it’s deceptive to go by another name on campus, when serving ones are running it? Is it not a front in order to recruit more ppl in the FTTA and church? Did you know that other authoritarian groups also do this? If it’s not ok for… Read more »

Sue Linden
Guest
Sue Linden

Do you have any suggestions. I have a relative involved in the LC and she is finishing training and considering mission service. Gave up her career path and now dresses like an older lady and no make up. Please pray for her and I need advice.

Gong Gong
Guest
Gong Gong

Very troubling words. I just notice a deadness in the voices as the worship begins. No sense of fresh joyfulness and genuine overflow from the spirit. Delays. Long silences. Hesitancy. Lack of coordination in speaking. Droning. Ritualistic. Lots of cultural taboos. Great fear of females reminiscent of imperial China.

Rick Gartside
Guest
Rick Gartside

Why do you call your site thelordsrecovery when you are not That is a lie Why do you call us cult when we appealed to caesar because of some in the past wrongfully accused us and lied and took things out of context We won that case Hank Hanegraf of CRI wrote on the front cover of their magazine WE WERE WRONG meaning they were wrong about Witness Lee and the local churches Witness Lees ministry was a ministry of life where your ministry is one of death I wonder how much you read his ministry and how much experience… Read more »

Max Springer
Guest
Max Springer

Rick – Paul’s appealing to Caesar was not a dispute among believers. He was charged by the unbelieving Jews. It was not a matter in the church. The past and current accusations against the Lord’s Recovery are by believers, and thus the Lord’s Recovery crosses and directly contradicts God’s Word in the lawsuits they have been embroiled in over the years. Rick, a group of Christians that is literally well-known for being litigious is not a Christ-like example to the Body of Christ. Many people have combed through what Hank Hanegraaf has written in CRI, and none of what he… Read more »

Former church kid
Guest
Former church kid

Unfortunately, CRI assumed that a cult was a group of people with heretical beliefs. This is not factually true. A cult can be destructive or not destructive- based on practices. There are entire fields of study that describe what a cult is and it has nothing to do with beliefs- only practices. The most current model for evaluation of any group is the BITE model from Steve Hassan. The more you can check off on that list, the more trouble you’re in. If you don’t want to be called a cult, you shouldn’t do as much things on that list.

Carol Brown
Guest
Carol Brown

I understand your points, but frankly, your interpretation of what you experienced is not entirely on track. The Recovery Teachings are actually more on track and Biblical than you think! I am 66 years old, and the more I study the Bible, the more I see how right the teachings are. I, too, was very judgmental in the early days about this ministry. Please don’t be bitter and cast away this ministry. Yes, they have some “odd practices” of voice intonation, robotic repetition, etc., but that is a cultural matter, not a spiritual fault. All churches and ministries have CULTURAL… Read more »

Max Springer
Guest
Max Springer

Carol – the Bible tells us to judge a righteous judgment. Believers must judge in the church; we are simply not to judge hypocritically (“remove the beam from your own eye SO THAT you can remove the splinter from your brother’s eye” — that’s making a judgment, but only after making sure that same sin is not a problem in our life). There is no way to call out false teachings, there is no way to identify wolves in the church, and there is no way to call sin in the church as sin if we cannot judge. Paul even… Read more »

Former church kid
Guest
Former church kid

Have you studied authoritarian control? It negates most of your argument here. None of this matters if they practice a majority of authoritarian control techniques.

Zach Syndra
Guest
Zach Syndra

I have a simple question, does members of the Lord’s Recovery allowed to marry non-members like for example Roman Catholics? Or they are only allowed to marry fellow members of the Recovery?

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Zach,

The marriage of non-members is heavily discouraged. I was told that marrying an outsider was a bad idea because we wouldn’t “see the same thing.”

Most members marry other members, sometimes getting engaged without knowing much about the other person, other than that the other person is a member. Without stating what’s right or wrong about it all, I’ll say there’s definitely a Recovery culture built around how marriages work.

Pinoy in Jakarta
Guest
Pinoy in Jakarta

Hi. I’ve been in the LC for about 20 years now. I’m not particularly active – I don’t attend other meetings except the Lord’s table, and I’ve secretly had my own criticisms regarding its practices especially the emphasis on Lee’s writings. However, I never “left” because I love fellowshipping with the brothers and sisters although I don’t always say ‘Amen’ when they prophesy. When I left the Philippines to work in Jakarta, I was not able to continue with this. I kept on reading the Bible though and have always prayed that the Lord through His grace and mercy will… Read more »

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Pinoy, Thanks for this. I think there are several non-Recovery churches that would be a good start for you. Every church is different, so it’s not so easy for me to say where you should go. I’m currently considering several denominations’ beliefs, recognizing that a denomination is just a name for a set of beliefs and practices, not inherently a division. Some denominations hold to very good Christian doctrine and others I disagree with vehemently! Even within a given denomination, it can be very different from church to church. If I were you, I would look into a local church.… Read more »