The Thread

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1. INTRODUCTION

For six years, I was a part of “the Lord’s Recovery” or “the Local Church” movement, a group of Christians who seem to truly love Jesus. But they teach heretical doctrines and are a cult movement. Here’s why I finally decided to leave (a thread):


2. PREFACE

Firstly, the Recovery is known for suing other Christians who write against them, at the least strong-arming or pressuring them to take their content down. I’m not looking to get into a law-battle with the Recovery, any of its specific churches, or any of its organizations. My only aim is to present my experience and give my opinion of that experience, detailing specific problems, and defending my opinions with biblical evidence.


3. A WARNING TO MEMBERS (1)

A tactic of the Recovery is to tarnish the reputation of the negative writer, calling his or her work “poison” or his or her character “selfishly ambitious” or “worldly”. Before members consider my experience to be poisonous and decide to only listen to the elders, consider Acts 17:11 and how the Berean Jews were considered more fair-minded and noble for not blindly believing Paul’s word, but comparing Paul’s word to God’s. And consider Acts 15:2, when Paul and Barnabas handled a major disagreement by means of a major argument and debate.

I’m debating here, but I’m fallible. There’s nothing wrong with reading my refutation and checking it against the Scriptures.


4. A WARNING TO MEMBERS (2)

This thread is straight forward. I am not trying to be mean or nice; I’m trying to tell it like it was for me, no defamation or ill-will. I warn you not to take things personally but to carefully consider the Recovery versus the Bible.


5. THE RECOVERY IS ELITIST (1)

While claiming to be for the oneness of the church, within its own meetings, it frequently and openly belittles all other Christians as inferior, less than Recovery Christians.


6. THE RECOVERY IS ELITIST (2)

The Recovery teaches that all of Christianity outside of itself is religious Babylon.


7. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (1)

Its elitism becomes each member’s elitism. Members come to believe that all other Christians are lost and are missing out on being a real Christian overcomer.


8. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (2)

Members with outsider, genuinely Christian families become hopeful for their families to join the Recovery. They are considered to be amongst the lost and are still missing out on the best form of Christianity.


9. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (3)

It conditions its members into legalism. For example, a special elder called a “blended brother”, a speaker from the pulpit at a major national conference for the Recovery, says not to wear worldly clothing. That speaker is wearing a tie in a room that requires all men to wear a tie, obviously implying ties are somehow not worldly.


10. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (4)

It teaches members that leaving the Recovery is impossible because the Spirit and truth are restraining them. However, it’s really the authoritative and interpreted/speculative doctrines that manipulate members into staying.


11. THE RECOVERY CONDITIONS (5)

The movement follows one man, its teacher and prophet Witness Lee, who authoritatively proclaims that he has already unlocked the entirety of the Bible. He teaches members not to read any other Christian books and only to read the Recovery translation of the Bible.


12. THE RECOVERY IS IDOLATROUS (1)

It unscripturally teaches there’s a “unique minister in every age” (i.e., every generation), thus only promoting Witness Lee’s writings.


13. THE RECOVERY IS IDOLATROUS (2)

On numerous documented occasions, its leaders boast of their dedication to Witness Lee’s teachings, publicly and pettily ridiculing others who speak against him.


14. THE RECOVERY INDOCTRINATES (1)

It has its own school (“the Training”) that, on a rigorous schedule, teaches its students to learn Witness Lee’s view of the Bible, conditioning them to be a good person according to Lee’s convictions.


15. THE RECOVERY INDOCTRINATES (2)

Members who are younger than college-aged are mostly born into families who are a part of the movement. Middle school to high school students are sent to the “Summer School of Truth” over the summer. They grow up with the Bible, in the context of Witness Lee writings, being drilled into them.


16. THE RECOVERY INDOCTRINATES (3)

College-aged members have an opportunity to go to a Training, which has all of the legalistic rules of the post-college Training and teaches Witness Lee material.


17. THE RECOVERY INDOCTRINATES (4)

It hosts conferences throughout the holidays and throughout the year. At those conferences, speakers go over Witness Lee content and frequently dismiss the idea of getting into the Scriptures because there isn’t enough time.


18. THE RECOVERY ISOLATES (1)

It cuts itself off from all other Christians within the local community, marking other meetings as “missing the mark” of the “proper ground” of being a church (which is specifically based on how a church is named, rather than Spirit-based).


19. THE RECOVERY ISOLATES (2)

Members end up spending most of their free time in the daily meetings. No one is forced to attend; members are simply manipulated into believing that all of their free time should be devoted to the Recovery. The majority of members have no real contact with outsiders beyond their jobs or when attempting to make Recovery converts out of college students.


20. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (1)

It mocks seminaries (in the Training) yet has the Training.


21. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (2)

It considers outside church groups’ population increases to be meaningless and even worldly, but when its own population increases, the Recovery claims it is because of God.


22. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (3)

It teaches members to drop their favorite practices for the sake of oneness, but it only promotes Witness Lee’s interpretation of proper practices.


23. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (4)

It claims to care about oneness of the Spirit, but its oneness makes it excluded from all other Christianity.


24. THE RECOVERY IS HYPOCRITICAL (5)

It says non-Recovery churches are divided because their oneness isn’t based on Christ alone, yet the Recovery churches are only unified in their belief in Witness Lee, who is not Christ.


25. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (1)

It has practices that are melodically, robotically repetitive in speech, all requiring an odd inflection of the voice. These are, at the very least, culturally disconnected.


26. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (2)

It only permits music to the Lord that is in its hymnal, which appeals to one style of music with songs that were approved or written by Witness Lee.


27. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (3)

Since Witness Lee’s death, new songs are simply Witness Lee’s own words in musically unrhythmic form.


28. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (4)

While claiming to not be legalistic, it addresses the wrongfulness of celebrating most holidays, which is largely Witness Lee’s convictions.


29. THE RECOVERY IS CULTURALLY STRANGE (5)

It improperly/oddly uses English, speaking with insider jargon that was coined by Witness Lee: “new ones”, “economy”, “god-men” (referencing Christians who are becoming God), “constitution”, “issue”, etc.


30. THE RECOVERY’s MINISTRY IS CONDITIONAL (1)

If a member attempts to teach and shepherd an outsider, but the outsider doesn’t appreciate Witness Lee’s teachings (even while still loving the Bible), the member will give up on ministering to the outsider because he or she was taught to do so, considering the outsider a non-seeker and thus a waste of time.


31. THE RECOVERY IS CHRISTIAN-LITIGIOUS (1)

Although the Bible teaches Christians not to sue each other, the Recovery has repetitively sued or strong-armed Christians who write against it.


32. THE RECOVERY IS FULL OF LEGALISM (1)

It says, “Christians live by grace.” But the Training teaches students to “learn grace” through contractual religious laws, which are solely according to Witness Lee’s personal convictions on character, practices, and biblical doctrine.


33. THE RECOVERY HAS A THIRD TESTAMENT OF THE BIBLE (1)

It claims to only care about the Bible, but Witness Lee’s writings (i.e., the interpreted Bible) are read, spoken, and re-taught with biblical authority; these writings are always justifiable and are considered infallible by members.


34. THE RECOVERY IS DECEPTIVE (1)

In its defense of its biblically questionable teachings or practices, the Recovery teaches something contextually irrelevant yet biblically sound, seemingly giving the Recovery biblical orthodoxy, but then avoids a truly biblical defense of the topic at hand (i.e., deflection).


35. THE RECOVERY IS DECEPTIVE (2)

It teaches that local churches are only under the authority of Christ. In reality, all of its content and direction comes from its headquartered organization, which gets its content and direction from the writings and past direction of Witness Lee.


36. THE RECOVERY IS DECEPTIVE (3)

It teaches and boasts that the Recovery is the same everywhere because of Christ. It is obviously the same everywhere because members uplift/deify Witness Lee and teach his material.


37. THE RECOVERY IS SELF-SERVING (1)

Members who love their notably, culturally stranger Recovery-practices ignore guests’ noticeable uncomfortableness in many of their meetings, caring only to continue in what they consider to be “living” (i.e., practicing how LR has taught them to practice, what they’re used to).


38. THE RECOVERY IS SELF-SERVING (2)

Its goal in speech is to spread and express Christ. Its goal in reality is to spread Witness Lee’s writings, doctrines, practices, and convictions.


39. IN ITS CURRENT CONDITION, THE RECOVERY CANNOT GROW SPIRITUALLY (1)

It believes Witness Lee to be mainly infallible. To loyal members, everything about the Recovery, no matter how clearly biblically wrong, is always defensible. If Witness Lee got something wrong, it was only because a truth was not “recovered” yet.


40. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (1)

It goes beyond the Bible, teaching that Christians are becoming God in life and nature but not in the godhead, even though none of Jesus’ own disciples even came to that conclusion.


41. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (2)

In its meetings, members have shouted “We are God!” without any public reproof; this statement has even been given “Amens!” without any rebuttal.


42. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (3)

The Bible says we don’t yet know what we will be when Jesus comes back, that we will be like God. Witness Lee says we will be the same as him, God and man, just not in the godhead.


43. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (4)

It goes beyond the Bible, teaching that there is a singular, unique minister in every age (generation), claiming Witness Lee is the last unique minister before Jesus comes back.


44. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (5)

It goes beyond the Bible, loosely teaching interesting yet speculative theory as divine fact (e.g., it teaches that the “7 Spirits” in Revelation should absolutely be interpreted as the seven-fold intensification of the Spirit).


45. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (6)

It declares “one city equals one church” an essential item of the Christian faith when the Bible doesn’t discuss names; it merely gives us examples of meeting locations (e.g., cities, a port in a city, and houses). I.e., the Bible doesn’t say, “Do you not know there is one church in one city?”


46. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (7)

The legality of the “one church in one city” is so strict, the Recovery teaches its members they should not even take the bread and the wine with outsiders.


47. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (8)

It only cares if Witness Lee says it. Although he made loose biblical connections throughout his teachings, members consider Lee’s teachings with biblical authority. That authority makes Lee’s writings sacred to members, which obviously goes beyond the Bible.


48. THE RECOVERY IS HERETICAL (9)

It teaches that we should all “speak the same thing”. Although this is a biblical phrase, the Recovery uses it to reference speaking only Witness Lee’s teachings, even doing so in the same, odd, robotic tone.


49. IN SUMMARY (1)

The Recovery is a mess of things that have nothing to do with Christ. And I know that I didn’t discuss all of its problems here. It claims to be biblical, but in reality, it is a cult, having misplaced, idolatrous loyalty for Witness Lee, believing and teaching his many heretical doctrines.


50. IN SUMMARY (2)

I have no doubt the Recovery is full of real believers, but they have a divisive, relentless, unapologetic dedication to Witness Lee and his teachings; the authority his teachings have should be reserved for Jesus Christ and His speaking alone.


51. IN HINDSIGHT (1)

I’m very glad the Lord is on the throne. I’ve learned a lot about my Lord Jesus through my time in the Recovery; God was sovereign and faithful in our relationship together I grew as a Christian.

My growth does not automatically indicate the Recovery is justified in heresy. What Satan meant for evil, I believe God meant for good.


52. IN HINDSIGHT (2)

I actually learned a lot from Witness Lee and his followers, but I mainly learned how to discern biblical truth from speculative and weak interpretations. I learned the truth, but I also learned the lie.


53. MY ADVICE (1)

If you’re in it, pray about leaving. It can be hard at first, but it’s okay with God to meet with other Christians somewhere else. God isn’t dead religion. He’s living and active. And He’s not building His church with the dead, heretical, and divisive Recovery religion. He’s building it with Christ. Oneness is for all believers, not just Recovery members.


54. FINAL WARNINGS (1)

The Recovery will be slick, trained, and cunning in how it addresses any what I argue to be heresies. If you bring problems up with its leaders, expect nothing but redirected defenses that don’t actually address these definite experiences and problems.

Don’t automatically trust LR member responses. Take a breath and ask yourself, “Did this member actually answer my question?” Consider Acts 17:11 and go read the Scriptures to see for yourself!


55. LAST THOUGHTS (1)

I love many of the people I’m leaving in the Recovery. I hope every one of them will find a way to leave and build up the church in a normal, non-exclusive way of oneness, through Christ Jesus our Lord!

Remember, Christ plus nothing equals everything!

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Cal
4 years ago

Great points. Well-thought-out and organized. You’ve given me some things to think about mentioning on my YouTube channel.

Jacob Howard
Admin
4 years ago
Reply to  Cal

Thanks, Cal. Sincerely have been appreciating your YouTube content. There are definitely more items to add to the Thread, specifically around control. Appreciate your feedback.

Former member who wishes to remain anonymous
Former member who wishes to remain anonymous
1 year ago
Reply to  Jacob Howard

Cal has asserted in the comments section of his YouTube channel that although the Lord’s Recovery Movement is in error in many ways, he does not believe they are a cult. He believes, as many in the Lord’s Recovery do, that there are secular and Christian definitions of what constitutes a cult. Cal said that he does not believe they are a cult because they do not meet the Christian definition of a cult. Would either of you care to discuss or elaborate on this issue in greater detail? I find it very difficult to nail down a major difference between the two definitions, and even with a “Christian” definition of a commitment to heresy, the LCS movement has done this with their erroneous beliefs in the inneracy of Witness Lee, and his doctrines of overcoming believers and others.

Former member in Fullerton
Former member in Fullerton
4 years ago

They claim that they are not a denomination and they are not religious, but I just left the Lord’s recovery after 5 years of attending their meetings I can definitely say they are very very religious.

Jacob Howard
Admin
4 years ago

I can relate entirely! I’m happy to hear you’ve left. It was hard for me to leave, but I’ve appreciated getting to know God again and getting to know others who have left 🙂

Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
3 years ago

hi! i know i’m a bit late seeing all this. but i am a former member from Cypress and Anaheim. i also went to a couple meetings in Fullerton with another sister who transferred there when she started at CSUF. i’d love to connect since you are from the same area i was from! i don’t live there anymore, but i’d still love to connect!

FormerChurchKid
FormerChurchKid
4 years ago

Do you have more updates to write on every points you made?

Jacob Howard
Admin
4 years ago

Hey there! I sure do. Definitely more to come. There will be at least a few more thread items and, as I find the time, there will be more explanations and arguments to go with each item.

Terry Risenhoover
Terry Risenhoover
4 years ago

Excellent analysis and thousands can confirm every point that you make. Having known Witness Lee in the early years I saw him lose his focus and eventually many felt he went insane when he proclaimed himself to be the oracle and claimed fallaciously to have recovered truths and practices that came from others. Perhaps the greater tragedy is the insidious manner in which he betrayed virtually all his coworkers and surrounded himself by foolish ambitious men that now control the organization and it is an organization. May the Lord have mercy on all the so called Blended Brothers and open their Blinded eyes and turn their cold hardened hearts back to the God of Love.

Carol Brown
Carol Brown
2 years ago

I agree that the ministry got off track, exalting Witness Lee and practically making an idol of him. He did a great work, however, and you cannot discount the whole man and the whole ministry because of this. Believe it or not, this happens more than you know, that a minister began a good work and in the end, it does not look the same way it started out. Did you ever hear of the devil? He has a way of slipping in and causing disruption, blindness and sin in order to DESTROY a ministry. It is the role of the believers to be the WATCHMEN and PRAY to get things back on track. Unfortunately, many believers either LEAVE the CHURCH or get on the internet and TRASH TALK the church. Are you a part of the SOLUTION or part of the PROBLEM? You decide, because if this is how Christians continue to behave, CRITICIZING and PUBLICALLY SHAMING the church when things go awry, the CHURCH, whom CHRIST died for, could become obsolete.

J.S
J.S
2 years ago
Reply to  Carol Brown

The “Problem” is Living Stream Ministry/Coworkers dominating over the local churches with the
“Problematic Witness Lee Ministry”. In regard to “solutions”, many times concerning saints have
approached the leadership of the LR whether it was in the 70s turmoil or the 80s, and many more attempts to fellowship and come up with “solutions to the “problems”. Do you know what happened to those people? They were “PUBLICLY SHAMED”, sullied, excommunicated, and their names demonized for years to come. This is what happens when you try follow the “Godly/scriptural method” of trying fellowshipping with the leaders of this group. Solutions to the “problematic ministry” will never ever be considered or pursued cause of the leadership of the LR that swears allegiance to Lee. Witness Lee is the center of conformity in the local churches, not Christ. They only follow scripture that suits their agenda and forgo scripture that conflicts with their agenda. That summarizes why “solutions” in this cult don’t really work in regard to the “problematic ministry”.

Just look at the schism in mid 2000s. Why was their such a divide and regional turmoil in the GLA churches? They were all Christian right and had Christ at the head, right? No, it was basically a power struggle between megalomaniac coworkers in Anaheim who wanted LSM to dominate over all localities. So, when the GLA churches refused to kowtow to the “one publication ultimatum/mandate” of LSM/Anaheim, they basically entered a nasty legal war. In which Anaheim/LSM sued for the properties in the GLA area and reinstated the domination of “the problematic ministry” with no solutions to the “PROBLEM” ever coming to fruition. Remember, Witness Lee is the head of this group and not Christ.

So the internet is actually one of the only reliable methods that ex-members can express their concerns/critique of the Lords Recovery. Also what is the self-entitlement thinking you are beyond reproach as if the LR is infallible and is King/Lord over mankind?

The bible said to judge righteously and to test false spirits for many false prophets have gone into the world. Then there are many verses that warn of false, destructive, and deceptive doctrines. Regarding “leaving the church”, what do you mean by this? The church described in Matthew 18? No many ex-members of this group are still Christians, follow the lord, and worship him with the body of Christ. What you really mean is leaving this “group” that follows a twisted “Jerusalem” doctrine in terms of place of worship. What is the requirement for worshiping the lord? SPIRIT AND TRUTH! Some funky interpretation that this group has regarding revelations 2/3 is bogus. 1000 denominations can form tomorrow on the basis of a “unique” interpretation people have in regard to the most enigmatic and ambiguous book in the bible- Revelations. Which ironically/woefully most;y involves in taking or adding words to the book of Revelations to fit their Agenda/Eisegesis John Chapter 4 is very clear on how to worship, not a mountain, not in JERUSALEM, but in spirit in truth. It’s very strange how the LC uses the Jerusalem worship practice in the Old Testament in an attempt to defend their unbiblical “ground of the church doctrine”. Which really is one of the many bizarre interpretations of the book of revelations that has plagued mankind (crazy interpretations of Revelations). WE NEVER LEFT THE CHURCH (Body), WE JUST REMEMBERED TO WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH! I worship where Christ is the head and basis of unity for my congregation. I don’t have a “geographical boundary” for where I worship, that is ridiculous and ruins the blessing of Christian worship.

1 Corinthians 1:12- What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
That verse in Corinthians is the core of all the “Problems” in the LR. A lot of problems would be solved in the LR if Christ was the head, and they followed the word of God to work out solutions to their “problems” and not follow “Lee”.

Lead Guitar
Lead Guitar
2 years ago
Reply to  Carol Brown

Actually, you can discount him. He led an entire ministry without accountability to anyone, while the New Covenant model shows that is not to be the case. Lee’s writings are exegesis or opinions, not in the least bit essential for salvation. The Recovery is in violation of 1 Cor 3:1-8 regarding Nee and Lee well beyond what is written per regarding men. Lee is an idol, plain and simple. The ministry redirects EVERYTHING, teachings, speakings, devos, table meetings to ONLY Witness Lee material. Try standing up sharing something else. You might get away with it if you’re new, but you won’t last long before they’re directing you to “higher truths” that are no such thing. Their 7 annual meetings are explicitly taught as “up to date speaking from the Lord”, which is more Lee soundbites. That’s a mediator, ma’am.

The fact the Lord meets many in it doesn’t mean He has them where He wants them. And, scripture is very clear how teachers and prophets (ministers in this context) are going to be judged rendering saints under teachers for decades when the Lord has made it clear where maturity is: One-on-one with the Lord guiding you above-and-beyond a teacher, “you have no need someone teach you” (1 Jn 2:27) and “they will ALL know Me from the least to the greatest” Jer 31:34. The overwhelming experience of saints in the Recovery for decades is they have no personal testimony, but only Lee soundbites to share.

It is a sect, at minimum, per 1 Cor chapters 1-3. It is a cult per many practicing isolation and abandoning those who do not tote the Lee line.

The list could go on, but space doesn’t permit.

Denise Crawford
Denise Crawford
4 years ago

Thank you Jacob and Anna for your courage and honesty. May the Lord bless you and strengthen you both as He leads you in truth by His Holy Spirit. Praying for you.

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Thank you, Denise! We need and *highly appreciate* your prayers!

A one-time friend of a LC
A one-time friend of a LC
4 years ago

It’s breaking into their circular, self-reinforcing justifications (doctrines?) that is the trick. You are doing this very well and that is the best that any concerned person on the outside can do. As well as pray. You won’t know in this life-time, the far reaching results of your labour here. It is not to be underestimated, (in my opinion), even if not evidenced.

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Thank you so much for this encouragement. I truly pray for Recovees to consider they be wrong and open to the Lord Himself, repent, and leave the Recovery, just following Jesus! 🙂

NoMoreLR
NoMoreLR
3 years ago

Great information and Praise the Lord ! I have been save by God’s Mercy and Grace for over 25 years and married to LC / LR lady and her family is really deep into LR. I lived in Anaheim for a period of time and personly experienced “teaching” from leading elders about how LR attacks non-LC churches and me. My wife always stand with LR side and forcing me to attend LR ONLY. by the Grace and Mercy of Lord, I am FREE from LR. Their leaders asked me to be baptize again because “Your previous baptize is false”. The leaders told me “Non-LR church is not saved and their teaching only lead people away from God.” Even one of leading brother in LR said “Other NON-LR believers are going to hell.” during their major international conference and all leading men agree and said “Aman”.

Claire
Claire
3 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreLR

I beg to disagree. Christians in LR, most especially elders will not force you to be baptized again unless you want it. Or if your clear what baptism means. And I also disagree that we do not consider other Christian Lord’s lover outside the LR to be saved that is false. This is my first time hearing this statement. I hope the Lord’s spirit will guide and enlighten you.

Maria Angulo
Maria Angulo
11 months ago
Reply to  Claire

They very clearly do believe this and proclaim it loud and clear.

NoMoreLR
NoMoreLR
3 years ago

Thank you, Jacob. I only with LR for about 2 years while I lived in Anaheim.Praise the Lord I moved out S.CA, My personal experiences with LR was shocking about how those leaders within LR can proclaim “There is no other ways to experience the True Church Life and Christ, expect in LR.” I had privilege to see LR current “Leaders” actions in major conferences and the how much they “hate” non-LR. I did not see any leaders within LR take BIBLE seriously but praise Witnesses Lee and his “thought” and his works My wife still very very deep into LR and what i see does not follow what Bible’s teaching. LR ONLY read “Holy Words for Morning Revival” and 7 major conferences’ materials. In between conferences, they only read Life Study of “each book in Bible”
I personally been bully by LR’s leaders and asked me to destroy my NON-LR Bible and buy LR Bible. The Leader also pushed me to be baptize AGAIN, even they knew I have been saved and baptized since 1992. Here is what this leader said: “Your baptized does not saved you, only baptized in LR is True Christian”

Steve Nelson
Steve Nelson
1 year ago
Reply to  NoMoreLR

Hello Guest (NoMoreLR) I can relate to the pain you might experience having a family member still “in” the group. If that is still your situation maybe some of these old LR videos might help them wake up: https://www.roxytube.com/

Momof3
Momof3
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Nelson

Videos have been removed! Wonder why? 😳🙈

MoMoreLR
MoMoreLR
3 years ago

From Romans 16:17 – 18: I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Watch out LR who only cause divisions and serve their own appetites.

Chloe
Chloe
3 years ago

I was in the LR for 9 years. The only reason I left initially was because I moved to a rural area where there was no local church. But after a couple years of shedding all the manipulation and indoctrination I was able to see the lies and find my own path…and im so much happier now

A Follower of God
A Follower of God
3 years ago

Jacob,

Thank you for creating this site and elaborating in detail the many issues that are to be found in the Lord’s Recovery. I was a member of the “Local Church Movement” for a little less than a year and found many of the points you shared here to be true. I want to emphasize the heretical view of LCM on “One City, One Church.” Out of this heretical doctrine flow so many issues.

My family were called Satanic and members of the “Daughters of the Whore of Babylon” because they were meeting in denominational churches. An elder tried to get me to move away from my family and into a “brother’s house” where I could be around “Real Saints.” When I told the elder that I intended to no longer meet with the local chapter, he pronounced that I would (1) no longer be an overcomer, (2) lose God’s blessing, and (3) possibly even die (in a car accident?) or get sick for turning away from “such a high ministry”. LR members–at the base–deny the gospel and its power.

In your post, you mention elitism and a flagrant disregard for (I would perhaps even say hatred for) grace. This is THE ROOT of every issue to be found in this movement. They preach salvation by grace, through faith, in christ, but they do not preach a salvation by grace ALONE, through faith ALONE, in christ ALONE.

The Lord’s Recovery Gospel is as follows: by grace AND works, through faith AND cooperation (whatever that means), in Christ AND the in Lord’s Recovery local church.

Let us pray for the multitudes of lost or wandering souls who are ensnared in this high-pressure cult movement. May God in His rich grace and mercy open their eyes and give them the courage to leave.

Kristin
Kristin
3 years ago

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am also in the Lords recovery and found this by accident. I see a lot of points and where you’re coming from, but I haven’t experienced those things in the Locality that I am in. So it makes me wonder if you just had a bad experience in that particular Locality? Or maybe my Locality is just different? I don’t know. In our meetings, home meetings especially, we often go into scripture only and nothing from witness Lee. We are not even told anything if we read from a different version other than the recovery version. I personally don’t read the recovery version of the Bible. It’s kind of difficult for me to understand that version. So I read from a different version at our meetings, for two years now, no one has ever told me anything. There are a few people who read from different versions.
Also, I’ve never heard anyone proclaim that we are God. That would startle me too. I’ve heard people talk about god-men, but the way that it was explained to me by the elders is that it just means we are trying to become more like Jesus. Like godly people. Not become gods or become God Himself.
Wonder what Locality you were in honestly? It makes me very uneasy that one of the localities, or maybe multiple, are teaching these things. My husband and I don’t deify witness Lee at all, we much prefer to get into scripture. But we do read the morning recovery. That’s about it. 🤷‍♀️
And we meet with outsiders all the time! They’re welcome at any of the home meetings and also yhe Sunday meeting. But even if they choose to not join the Lords recovery and attend the Sunday meetings. They are still welcome to attend the home meeting if they choose. There are quite a few people that meet with us that way. So I am just completely lost by your description of everything. What Locality were you in?

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin
Reply to  Kristin

Hi there, Kristin!

Thanks for jumping in here and for being honest. I was in the Recovery in Conway, AR, for 6 years. It was mainly full of good people who were very kind! I have no doubt that there is nuance with each locality, but the core beliefs of the Recovery don’t bear much nuance at all. The Recovery has oneness, but it’s not based on Jesus Christ; it’s based on Witness Lee.

The Recovery believes in the teachings and practices of Witness Lee (and Watchman Nee). That is what makes the Recovery what it is. I regret that it’s a fact that true Recovery localities adhere very firmly to Witness Lee’s teachings, and that he’s indispensable to their oneness. The elders across America all signed a document declaring that exact phrase, “indispensable to our oneness,” in a letter of complete loyalty to Witness Lee. I talk about it here: https://thelordsrecovery.org/33-the-recovery-has-a-third-testament-of-the-bible-1/.

I’m glad to hear that in your home meetings, you read only Scripture. That’s mainly how I got hooked, was those types of meetings. Actually, our home meetings stayed that way even after my 6 years in. That was so we could invite outsiders in and make them feel more comfortable. But that’s just deception.

I have the corroborated testimony of hundreds of people (that’s a literal number — hundreds of people), especially ex-full timers, that they deceptively (intentions arguably good) omit Witness Lee at certain meetings in order to bait “seekers.” It’s a bait and switch tactic. The bait is Jesus, but the switch is Witness Lee’s teachings and practices. The bait is Jesus, but the switch is the Recovery under the guise of glorious names like “the church life,” “the Body,” and “the local church.”

Regarding people saying, “We are God,” that’s an actual teaching by Witness Lee, sprinkled in qualifiers all with the purpose of making the case for being God. I just released that page tonight. You can check it out here: https://thelordsrecovery.org/40-the-recovery-is-heretical-1/.

The openness for members to read whichever version of the Bible they want may seem genuine on its face. And for some, maybe it is! But in my experience and opinion, truly dedicated and believing Recovery members mostly read the Recovery Version of the Bible and say, “All versions are welcome,” as a dishonest gesture to make newer people feel comfortable. I’m glad you don’t read the Recovery Version though! It has a few areas that impose Lee’s theology onto the Scriptures, and Lee of course filled it with his footnotes.

I encourage you to read whatever I have on this site and check it against your experience, but ultimately, check my arguments and your experience against the Word of God. I could definitely be wrong about your locality, so if this doesn’t paint them in the right light, certainly take note of that.

But if you’re reading the Holy Word for Morning Revival from LSM, you’re likely in the Recovery, and I do fear that these people, as kind and genuine as they may be about what they believe, are cogs in the wheel of deception and heresy. Keep seeking God, keep seeking His Word, and test everything; hold onto what is good (1 Thess. 5:21)! We are called to contend for the faith (Jude 3). If the Recovery has the significant heresy I assert it does on this site, I believe we Christians are without choice; we have to stand for the faith and contend for it!

I’d love to chat further. Feel free to email me at jacobhobsonhoward@gmail.com. It can feel strange to have all of this thrown at you all at once. Hang in there — stay strong in the Lord! Seek Him!

Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
3 years ago
Reply to  Kristin

i lived in the “heart” of the LR, in Anaheim, CA and surrounding localities. i was part of it from age 19-27. i also went on many many blending trips, conferences in other locations (and spent time in the homes in hospitality in those localities). i went to almost every semi-annual training (thereby meeting many many people from other localities over the years), spent ample time with trainees in the FTTA. i went to table meetings every Sunday, prayer meetings every Tuesday, ministry meetings every Wednesday, bible studies on campus every Thursday, college meetings in another locality every Thursday evening, home meetings every Friday, and college meetings every Saturday. i attended many weddings and many memorial meetings. the toxicity of the LR is rampant all over the world. while there may be healthy practices in yours, which is great, i just want to point out that your lack of experiencing the unhealthy things this person has talked about, does not mean they don’t exist in the LR as a whole. it is not one person having a bad experience in one place. i’ve seen people leave the church all over and go on to live happy, healthy lives. there are testimonies all over the world of how unhealthy and controlling the LR is.

Former local church kid
Former local church kid
2 years ago
Reply to  Kristin

This sounds much healthier than my experience. I was raised in it. The indoctrination the children received was highly damaging to many young people. My biggest concern is the use of authoritarian control tactics from the top down. It’s one thing to believe certain spiritual ideas. However, if the group you’re involved with uses certain practices- it’s unethical. Truth can withstand scrutiny. It will take bravery but you can check out Steve Hassans work and see how the “Recovery” compares with his BITE model of evaluating damaging groups. I’m not “anti-LC” as much as I’m anti-authoritarian control methods. Those methods rob people of their free will by using psychological manipulation. The more tactics that are used, the deeper the group falls into an unhealthy spectrum of control. Unfortunately, this comes off as conflict between people who “meet” and ppl who don’t meet. The real problem lies with the leadership. They know exactly what they are doing and they don’t care.

Dawn
Dawn
2 years ago
Reply to  Kristin

Hi Sister, I agree with you. I was in the Lords Recovery in Brazil for 6 years thing happened in my life and I returned to the USA I hadn’t really found a place for me here. I went back to the lords recovery but just couldn’t get into it. I also could not get into and traditional Christian or pentecostal type churches. The reason I became a part of the LR in Brazil was because in one of the most darkest moments of my life when I felt absolutely dead inside and must I tell you I have been a Christian since a very young age. I was sitting in the lobby of my business and I had just told the Lord, “ God if you don’t help me right now I fear I will need to be put in a mental facility “I had prayed so hard for God to hear me but my prayers had hit the ceiling and fallen back! But this day was different, not 5 minutes passed by, a women sat next to me and out of the blue started speaking the word of God I mean the pure word! I had heard that word before but never like that! I was spoken with LIFE I could actually feel it penetrating my spirit! I remember running out behind my business and laughing and crying with Joy. That was the beginning of my healing! There is Life in the local church’s! Remember we are all just human! All things must be tested by the Holy Spirit. I left the recovery for 20 years and during another very dark moment the HolySpirit lead me back to the recovery! One day I was reading the pure Word of God and I came across a word Bdellium I did a google search and the took me to the Life Study of Genesis. I knew in my spirit it was time to go back! Witness Lee is Just a man that dedicated his entire life to God. But do I and would I test in the spirit what he wrote? The answer is yes! But I have never felt more at home as I do in the LR. We shouldn’t be divided! We need to look at the things that generate life. The things that are pleasing to our Lord Jesus! I am just so greatful that I can express the portion that God gives me in the Body. I don’t have to sit and listen to 1 man speak! And I can choose a hymn to sing if the Spirit moves me! The Body is universal and one day God will break all of the barriers that divide us! The important thing is not to criticize the way people do things but to speak life and love one another as our Lord Jesus requested of us.

Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
Former member in Cypress and Anaheim
3 years ago

i fully agree with everything said here. i was in the lord’s recovery for 8 years before i moved to a place without a “locality”. it was only then that i was able to begin to unpack and release all of the manipulation, brainwashing, and lies i was taught. i still held onto it all even a year or two after moving, i’ve now been away from it for 7 years but i’ve only been actively releasing myself from it for the past 5. it is a long hard road. the fear they drove into me that me leaving was just Satan having a tight hold on me…it stayed with me for a long time. and i even still occasionally wonder if they were right. but i am quite happily practicing Wicca now and i feel more content and safe with it than i ever did in that cult…i would love to connect with others who have left, whether you are sitll Christian but practicing elsewhere, or have left all religion, or have gone on to be at home with another religion!

Bro art
Bro art
3 years ago

I feel sorry for you leaving the LC..your still blinded and don’t know or understood what the recovery was all about…I enjoy the high truths as revealed by the ministry of the age..your jealousy will get you nowhere..the LR is spreading like crazy and you cannot stop it..there is no ministry like it on the earth.. Thanks to bro nee and bro Lee..you don’t stand a chance ti be an overcome in degraded Christianity were only one man speaks and the rest listen..
Like a brother told me one time..that not everybody belongs in the recovery..I got a lot more to say but not waste my time and effort

Max Springer
Max Springer
2 years ago
Reply to  Bro art

Bro art – plenty of people know the Lord’s Recovery like the back of their hand and know exactly what it was all about. Minoru Chen, one of the most prominent co-workers in the Lord’s Recovery, said straight out, recorded on video, a few years ago that the growth rate of the Lord’s Recovery has been zero over the past 30 years. Zero. Stagnant. The millions and millions of dollars spent to capture college students over the past 10-20 years has only resulted in a zero growth rate, as admitted by the leading brothers in the Lord’s Recovery. I and many others beg you with all of our heart to please, be willing to hold up the ministry to the light of the truth found in the Word. There is no jealousy, there is no offense, and there is no vindictiveness in the attempts of people who simply do what the Bible says to do and “test all things”. Witness Lee’s ministry must be able to be tested just like everything else. Nothing is above testing. If any given teaching of Witness Lee is true according to Scripture, it will stand the test. If any given teaching of Witness Lee is false according to Scripture, we surely do not want to hold onto what is false. If you speak the way you do to someone who is simply testing the truth of the ministry, that reflects very poorly on you as well as on the Lord’s Recovery. If Lee’s ministry is solid, there should be no harsh words spoken by saints in the Lord’s Recovery as it is tested.

Former church kid
Former church kid
2 years ago
Reply to  Bro art

I was under the impression that it was not spreading. Can you explain where this is happening? If it is spreading on any college campus, how do you feel about the serving ones running the campus ministry- in direct opposition to college rules that campus clubs must be run by students? Do you feel it’s deceptive to go by another name on campus, when serving ones are running it? Is it not a front in order to recruit more ppl in the FTTA and church? Did you know that other authoritarian groups also do this? If it’s not ok for them to do it, then why is it ok for the local church leaders to do it?

Lead Guitar
Lead Guitar
2 years ago
Reply to  Bro art

“spreading like crazy”

Social impact isn’t a measure of truth. Using your logic, the Roman Catholic Church is more true since it spread to billions

Sue Linden
Sue Linden
3 years ago

Do you have any suggestions. I have a relative involved in the LC and she is finishing training and considering mission service. Gave up her career path and now dresses like an older lady and no make up. Please pray for her and I need advice.

Gong Gong
Gong Gong
3 years ago
Reply to  Sue Linden

Very troubling words. I just notice a deadness in the voices as the worship begins. No sense of fresh joyfulness and genuine overflow from the spirit. Delays. Long silences. Hesitancy. Lack of coordination in speaking. Droning. Ritualistic. Lots of cultural taboos. Great fear of females reminiscent of imperial China.

Rick Gartside
Rick Gartside
3 years ago

Why do you call your site thelordsrecovery when you are not That is a lie Why do you call us cult when we appealed to caesar because of some in the past wrongfully accused us and lied and took things out of context We won that case Hank Hanegraf of CRI wrote on the front cover of their magazine WE WERE WRONG meaning they were wrong about Witness Lee and the local churches Witness Lees ministry was a ministry of life where your ministry is one of death I wonder how much you read his ministry and how much experience of life did you have The descriptions of the church life do not match with my experience and I have to many localities There is a lot more I would like to say but I dont want to waste my time The only thing I would ask is to be a gentleman and close this site There is nothing to be gained here Rick Gartside a lover of Christ and the Church

Max Springer
Max Springer
2 years ago
Reply to  Rick Gartside

Rick – Paul’s appealing to Caesar was not a dispute among believers. He was charged by the unbelieving Jews. It was not a matter in the church. The past and current accusations against the Lord’s Recovery are by believers, and thus the Lord’s Recovery crosses and directly contradicts God’s Word in the lawsuits they have been embroiled in over the years. Rick, a group of Christians that is literally well-known for being litigious is not a Christ-like example to the Body of Christ. Many people have combed through what Hank Hanegraaf has written in CRI, and none of what he has written has anything to do with what makes a group a cult.

The apostle Paul said to “test all things”. He said to “watch your life and your teachings closely”. How can you say that Jacob here has a ministry of death when he is following the Bible to test all things and watch teachings? That is a dangerous accusation on your part! No one’s ministry, Witness Lee’s included, is above testing. The Bible doesn’t say to test everything except Witness Lee. What Lee taught must be tested without backlash. It only serves to reinforce the extremely tarnished imaged of the Lord’s Recovery if it’s members lash out at anyone who simply follows the Word of God to test the ministry. If Lee’s ministry is of God, it will stand the test, no worries at all. If it is not of God, we need to know! None of us want to hold on with an iron fist to something that is tested and found to be not of God!

Former church kid
Former church kid
2 years ago
Reply to  Rick Gartside

Unfortunately, CRI assumed that a cult was a group of people with heretical beliefs. This is not factually true. A cult can be destructive or not destructive- based on practices. There are entire fields of study that describe what a cult is and it has nothing to do with beliefs- only practices. The most current model for evaluation of any group is the BITE model from Steve Hassan. The more you can check off on that list, the more trouble you’re in. If you don’t want to be called a cult, you shouldn’t do as much things on that list.

Carol Brown
Carol Brown
2 years ago

I understand your points, but frankly, your interpretation of what you experienced is not entirely on track. The Recovery Teachings are actually more on track and Biblical than you think! I am 66 years old, and the more I study the Bible, the more I see how right the teachings are. I, too, was very judgmental in the early days about this ministry. Please don’t be bitter and cast away this ministry. Yes, they have some “odd practices” of voice intonation, robotic repetition, etc., but that is a cultural matter, not a spiritual fault. All churches and ministries have CULTURAL PRACTICES. This can be overlooked. Consider how the practice of COMMUNION varies in ALL the churches. The Recovery is not the only church who believes all the others are heresy! This is a VERY COMMON view.

I, personally cannot deny how being a part of this ministry has changed my life – FOR GOOD. In your 6 years, it is hard for you TO SEE what this ministry hopes to accomplish. The Recovery is a SEPARATION from the world and religiosity. The Bible DOES teach this. Many denominational churches are compromised concerning the gospel but in reality, NONE OF US are qualified to JUDGE a ministry, church or another believer. NONE OF US – SEE the whole picture. Consider this: Are you growing in CHRIST? Where can you best do this? Where can you find genuine FELLOWSHIP of the spirit? And yes, we are to be conformed to the image of Christ, according to the Scriptures. Again, Where can you best be encouraged and supported to do this?

Keep studying your Bible. Over time, you will know where you fit, but please don’t HATE on this ministry. See Philippians 1:18 and Romans 12:1-3. May God keep you and reveal the TRUTH to you, for the TRUTH is in Jesus Christ.

Max Springer
Max Springer
2 years ago
Reply to  Carol Brown

Carol – the Bible tells us to judge a righteous judgment. Believers must judge in the church; we are simply not to judge hypocritically (“remove the beam from your own eye SO THAT you can remove the splinter from your brother’s eye” — that’s making a judgment, but only after making sure that same sin is not a problem in our life). There is no way to call out false teachings, there is no way to identify wolves in the church, and there is no way to call sin in the church as sin if we cannot judge. Paul even chastises the Corinthians for not having anyone in the church who can judge a dispute, reminding the church there that we will judge the world and judge angels! So how much we must be able to judge rightly now! Hebrews tells us that solid food is for the mature believers, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil (Heb. 5:14) – the distinguishing good from evil is to be able to make a judgement. We are not to take vengeance, but we certainly are to judge. I can claim the better part of 40 years in the Lord’s Recovery, and I stand with what Jacob has said on this website. Please do not dismiss the very real negative experiences that too many people have had in the Lord’s Recovery. Those who have been harmed and damaged do not dismiss your positive experience; please do not dismiss or turn a blind eye to the very real damage, hypocrisy and deception that has occurred and continues to occur.

Former church kid
Former church kid
2 years ago
Reply to  Carol Brown

Have you studied authoritarian control? It negates most of your argument here. None of this matters if they practice a majority of authoritarian control techniques.

Bible-believer
Bible-believer
1 year ago
Reply to  Carol Brown

Hi, Carol,
It seems you study the Bible. Will you tell me what the gospel is according to the scriptures?

Zach Syndra
Zach Syndra
2 years ago

I have a simple question, does members of the Lord’s Recovery allowed to marry non-members like for example Roman Catholics? Or they are only allowed to marry fellow members of the Recovery?

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin
Reply to  Zach Syndra

Zach,

The marriage of non-members is heavily discouraged. I was told that marrying an outsider was a bad idea because we wouldn’t “see the same thing.”

Most members marry other members, sometimes getting engaged without knowing much about the other person, other than that the other person is a member. Without stating what’s right or wrong about it all, I’ll say there’s definitely a Recovery culture built around how marriages work.

Pinoy in Jakarta
Pinoy in Jakarta
2 years ago

Hi. I’ve been in the LC for about 20 years now. I’m not particularly active – I don’t attend other meetings except the Lord’s table, and I’ve secretly had my own criticisms regarding its practices especially the emphasis on Lee’s writings. However, I never “left” because I love fellowshipping with the brothers and sisters although I don’t always say ‘Amen’ when they prophesy.
When I left the Philippines to work in Jakarta, I was not able to continue with this. I kept on reading the Bible though and have always prayed that the Lord through His grace and mercy will allow me to still pursue Him. With the pandemic, I was able to reconnect with those in my previous locality but it also reminded me of the practices that I felt were not Biblical.
Now that it’s possible to connect with other believers through zoom or gmeet, I was wondering if you could suggest how I could fellowship with others who not necessarily just came out of or are critical of the recovery but just ‘normal’ Christians who just want to pursue Christ?
Thank you and may God grant us the wisdom to really be able to discern the truth.

Jacob Howard (Site Owner)
Admin

Pinoy,

Thanks for this. I think there are several non-Recovery churches that would be a good start for you. Every church is different, so it’s not so easy for me to say where you should go. I’m currently considering several denominations’ beliefs, recognizing that a denomination is just a name for a set of beliefs and practices, not inherently a division. Some denominations hold to very good Christian doctrine and others I disagree with vehemently! Even within a given denomination, it can be very different from church to church.

If I were you, I would look into a local church. No church will be perfect, but we cannot forsake the assembling with the Body of Christ! I’ve been visiting Baptist, non-denominational-Bible-based (which needs a name; really hard to follow who believes what and why!), and Reformed/Calvinist to see what is Scriptural and what is not. I’m also considering other non-denominational churches that hold to the 5 solas and other doctrinal confessions I agree with.

I do find many churches outside the Recovery do indeed glorify things that are not God, much like Recovery members glorify their special ministry and Witness Lee; these problems are everywhere and are not limited to the Recovery. But we have to keep looking for like-minded Christians who want to solely follow the Lord! It’s a journey for sure, and I’m still on it myself. After months with a congregation, I’ve deduced I can’t meet with them. But that time was sweet, and I loved getting to know other Christians and to fellowship with them!

I will encourage you, while you’re searching, even if you find disagreements with other Christians, truly try to step back and ask God what He thinks rather than what the Recovery has taught us to think. There are plenty of things the Recovery got right, no doubt. But there are plenty of things that were spiritually elitist and worth discarding entirely. Fight to find the common ground with your brothers, and if you can’t stick around due to heresy, idolatry, or something that you just can’t live with in you biblical convictions, at least make the most of it while you’re there! Get to know someone, get in the Word with them, and praise God while you’re in the storm!

Former Member
Former Member
2 years ago

Thank you. I’m glad to have found this site. My parents left family and friends to move our family across the country in the late 70’s to join one of the local churches in the Central Valley of California. I was 8.
When I was in college I was invited to a non Lord’s Recovery church for a bbq. (It was an FCA event.) I remember telling my mom that I wanted to go and she warned me that any other church outside of the Lord’s Recovery was just religion. I went. That first step was the beginning of my journey leaving the Lord’s Recovery. I am now 50 and my parents are still in it.
I do have warm memories of the people in the church and I do still love them, but of all the things you listed above, the points on it being elitist resonates with me the most. The non-denominational church I attend now with my husband is biblically sound and teaches the Bible line by line. My parents have attended our church when supporting one of their grandkids, but their church is still THE church. I stopped letting their dismissive comments about my church (or any other biblically sound church) rattle me.
I love and respect my parents, but their allegiance to Witness Lee and THE church is unnerving. I know they genuinely love the Lord, so there is peace for me in that.

Paul Vusik
Paul Vusik
2 years ago

My experience,
I would say the following regarding TLR;
1. I spent almost 12 years of my life there, and it’s only been about 18 months that God has taken me out of it. I’m thankful to Him for His grace and love more and more everyday. There is no words to describe how beautifully and enjoyable it is, when God takes you off that ventilator, you get out of that hospital room, and you take a deep breath on your own. There is something actually living about that, rather than existing on some fraudulent, made up, so called “truth’s”, visions and other brainless therapies offered by that “exclusive club”.
2. Just a word of caution to anyone that’s being recruited to the “exclusive club”; please pray, read the Bible (stay away from the recovery version), and verify, question, press on getting explanations and proofs of every thing you are told! Then, triple check their proofs, because they are extremely cunning about using Bible verses out of context. Read the whole chapter to see if that’s the subject matter in context. I didn’t do that, and now, I’m reaping my failures that I have seeded over 12 years.
3. Don’t pay attention to all the attention that you will get in the beginning. Dinners, lunches, football games together, social gatherings, entertainment, and there is a lot more things offered as a recruiting tactic that you can find on this site and others. Don’t fall for it! Don’t let the Mr.nice guy or Ms.loving get you on those secondary, worthless experiences. If you ever start questioning their motives, questioning their beliefs, it will all disappear in the blink of an eye!
4. Don’t ever trust a man! Because you will be highly disappointed when you do! Believe in Jesus and what He said Himself, and through the apostles. There is nothing that these man claim that they have recovered, because there was nothing lost in the first place. What they offer is a bunch of poorly put together, re-wrapped, repainted half truths, with a little sprinkling of their spin to it. Study church history, and you will find out that all things offered there, have already existed at one time or another, and in one form or another. And if they didn’t exist in Biblical Christianity, they existed in Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all the other “isms” out there. There is nothing new under the sun, so this is no exception!
5. Lastly, if these people already got you hooked to this dispensary, pray and beg God to put you on the right path. You will not get off of it by yourself! Zero chance of that! Only God can show you the truth. Pray, read the word, and remember, these people will do everything possible to make sure that you never get off of it. And I do mean everything! But God is powerful and mighty, to even overcome those who stand in the way. He is powerful and loving, unconditionally. No purchase necessary! No subscriptions! No visions! No ministers of the age! No private revelations or interpretations! No special grounds! No special conditions! No offers of being gods! It’s a free gift! It’s restoration, rather than destruction! It’s Him, being you shepherd, not a third party command and distribution center! That’s LIFE and not just a mere existence!

Anonymous
Anonymous
1 year ago

How did you leave in the Lords recovery?

anonymous
anonymous
1 year ago

hi there! im a current attendee??? uhh semi attendee of the LR church. ive been in it about ever since i was born (currently 18) and id love to connect on other platforms and id like to help add on/or clarify anything as im from Malaysia and some things are different here and some things are the same and/or worse. Ive moved away for college and ive found another church (charismatic) at the back of my accomodation recommended by my friend and i really enjoy it there, actually felt the Lord’s presence for the first time and i knew then that that was a good place and not a place full of manipulation. Ive been alternating between the LR and current church because my parents and relatives keep track of whether i attend or not and i cannot tell them about me attending another church because well, yk. However the current church is very open with me just coming and going as such, theyre very accepting and NOTHING like the LR proclaimed them to be. Anyways if youd ever want to discuss anything further or just share more experiences/listen to my own, im semi active on instagram as @jenuary.days 🙂

Steven
Steven
1 year ago

I’m also a former member. I quit after being disillusioned by their practices such as exercising their spirits. I refuse to read any book published by Living Stream Ministry.

I’m wondering what former members do after quitting the local church cult. The worst case scenario is they become atheists, and that would be heartbreaking for devoted Christians.

Paul Vusik
Paul Vusik
1 year ago
Reply to  Steven

Hey Steven,
I’m glad you did realized that everything thats offered there in any kind of books, methods, rituals or practices, leads to nothing more than empty and futile illusions, and vanity to the level of total destruction. Unfortunately, not everyone gets to see these things or to be free from them.

I see two categories of people that have came out of this movement:

1. First, is the people who have gotten to the end of the rope with their practices, rituals, and even have been abused by the system in many different ways. Once that happens, they leave, or better put, they are pushed out of the system because of the so called rebellion or as they would put pride and ambition. Most of the times in these cases, what people never realized, is that what they have just been through is nothing short of a scam, and what they have experienced has zero to do with God and Jesus Christ that you find on the pages of the Scriptures.

I have read and spoken to many people in this category, which is actually 80% of those that left belong to, in my honest opinion. I have found and observed many different things and ideas that this category of people gets into: full on atheist, agnostics, new age spiritualists, hardcore feminists and many more similar to the familiar patterns of LC groups. A lot of people in this group also struggle with heavy and deep depression, other mental disorders and even have committed suicides. There are many testimonies that can be found on dozens of websites and even videos online.

2. Second group, is the group of people that have realized that what they were led to, or better put deceived into, has nothing to do with God, nothing to do with Biblical Christianity, and have cried out to God for freedom from it’s tentacles and it’s rituals, for God to give them liberty in Christ alone, and through Him received freedom as their Lord and Shepherd. They realized that everything associated with the LC is tainted by men who have installed themselves as Gods representatives, or intermediaries between them and God. They’ve asked God to free them from practices and mindless exercises that could lead to dangerous spiritual experiences, which can damage and destroy you as a human being, or give control to others over your whole life.

I believe that the Local Church is a spiritual bondage, hiding behind some vague Christian terminology, and is used by cunning minions and disciples of both man they idolize, to enslave, lead people astray, and stand in the way of people ever experiencing and knowing God as their Lord and Savior. Very few people who are able to come to this point without suffering a complete shipwreck of their faith, after the years spent under the bewitchment of Lee and Nee.

These are my own conclusions, and beliefs that I have come to, after years of seeing and experiencing nothing but destruction in my life and those around me. I have been there, at the edge of the ledger, were living another day was not in the cards. But God had mercy, and grace, love and care, unlike anything you will ever find in the LC. When God stops you, shows you the truth, gives you freedom and liberty, and you cry out for help and He doesn’t disappoint. I hope this helps someone in the similar situation, to seek and not be afraid to throw away everything that you have gotten from the broken cistern of the Lords Recovery.

Thanks.

Bible-believer
Bible-believer
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul Vusik

Hi, Paul Vusik, It’s good to see you here. Are you coming back to the forum to share your thoughts with us?

OOF
OOF
11 months ago
Reply to  Steven

I grew up in the LR and left about 8ish years ago because of mental health.
I have so much to say here and there’s so much to unpack that I’m overwhelmed and don’t even know where to start or how to process this.
I’ve heard that people thought it was a cult, but even after leaving it never even dawned on me to look into it. Literally, this whole time, I’ve thought that I was in the wrong for leaving. It was literally my life- all the things said on here, I was on the other side. I don’t consider it a good thing,
This is honestly just a lot but I wanted to get on here because I’m seeing so many comments from others who grew up in it.

Javier Hernandez
Javier Hernandez
1 year ago

Thank you for your testimony, brother. I recently got out of “The Lord’s Recovery” and it’s been very difficult to see loved ones give in to Lee’s doctrines and treat others so poorly. I hope the Lord will open their eyes to the true dangers of Lee’s “ministry.”

Steven the Former Member
Steven the Former Member
10 months ago

I’m a former member who went to church in Diamond Bar. The most obvious red flag is their so called exercising spirit by shouting random words. I’m not willing to shout “Oh Lord Jesus! Amen!” Also I’m not willing to read the Morning Revival and other works by Living Stream Ministry. I may still have the Recovery version of the Bible. The next time I read the footnotes, I’ll go against Witness Lee’s interpretation. I decided not to do full time training programme because it’s a waste of time. From now, I prefer to pray like this “Dear Heavenly Father…in the name of Jesus we pray. Amen”

Peacekeeper
Peacekeeper
5 months ago

After more than 2 decades I finally gave into my conscience and had to leave because of being so strongly convicted by God that we are in the body of Christ and that the “place to worship” is in spirit and truthfulness, not something else, and that the multi-decades elderly saints in the “Recovery” (which doesn’t have a name like all the rest of fallen Christianity does in their error?) stand up and put the systemic cultural issues on full display, especially in speaking negativity against other churches and believers who they don’t even know or have any experience with, to pre-qualify or somehow add value to what they are about to say, and to keep everyone galvanized into this exclusive and superior group. I learned a lot there in terms of core fundamentally important truths, but eventually the years long wrestling match with my personal convictions and the Spirit regarding the division in the body of Christ had to end, and nobody in this environment can relate to us in our family with the issues we have experienced with our own family, because the ministry, culture, format, schedules, and other culturalisms can’t allow for anyone else being made to feel uncomfortable, or everyone has to hide their real problems so they can put on their amen face. Noone can really discuss or get help with addictions, mental problems, or other real life issues, like children coming out on the rainbow spectrum, etc., (unlike the church we are now with which has so many different specialized programs and ministries) parents have to keep that pretty much on the down low in the TLR culture. My wife and I are now involved in a bible church and participating/serving in BSF etc., and not to our surprise, the Christian church at large is aware of and practicing the “lost truths” that the “Recovery” claims are in it’s unique storehouse on the earth! It turns out that the “so-called free groups” out there are up to date with the Lord’s interests! The churches know the bible, Christ, the Spirit, and His plan! And beyond that, they embrace and coordinate with one another beyond their own walls! (Another claim that the TLR says makes them unique and more correct, they “blend” only with other churches in the TLR). There is a pervasive cultural characteristic of being proud of being in an exclusive group and they justify it with grossly false and uneducated claims that are way out of date, as in repeating things about Christianity and non-TLR churches that were said by Lee in the 1950’s and 60’s. My recommendation to anyone in “TLR” is to try BSF or get specialized help with your hidden problems through the multifarious specialized ministries overseen by Jesus Christ through another church in your area, like re-gen, re-engage, etc., on the side, do something with other Christians outside of your group, and pay attention to whether you are already judging them, or feel you are better in your knowledge and experience, if you are, ask yourself why and be honest, and to your surprise, you’ll see that the Church at large is fraught with human problems, but in total knowledge and harmony with “the lost truths being recovered in the TLR”, shepherding one another, and looking for Christ daily, and awaiting for and hoping in His return, coordinating with other churches and church leaders, and encouraging their congregants to shepherd each other, coordinate with each other, and do all the healthy biblical practices. Once you see this, the rest is between you and God what to do.